Forum:Tolerating XD

Guys

With the opportunity of the new XD tag, I'd like the three of us to discuss how can we improve the co-existence of all Dune canons.

The XD is a better-than-nothing solution for now although it was not as good as I expected: it leaves some disturbing gaps, especially with section titles, or photographs next to it. Erasmus2 also reported some crashes while editing.

Since it is a recent introduction, I'd strongly suggest to let it be for now, waiting to see if it makes some people happier than they were, as we are hoping.

I am seeking for a neutral and just solution. Eliminating all Expanded Dune info, or eg. letting Expanded Dune undermine the Original Dune are both marginal. (I know that many guys don't like neutrality but anyway, this is me)

So, I'd like to hear your objections and suggestions. Thanks MoffRebusMy Talk 08:41, October 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is definitely better than nothing.. but just thinking about it today I'm definitely thinking it's nowhere near perfect. Eg: if someone DOES want to search Expanded stuff, they need to Unhide every section individually - and just looking at Gurney Halleck for example - that article has 7 XD tags. They are good, but that to me seems excessive. :P


 * [EDIT: Just looked at Norma Cenva lol... I think she wins]


 * The ultimate solution, and possibly one that should have been implemented from the beginning, would be to split the canons - like you're doing with the DE entries (great work btw :) ). I do agree with the inclusionist concept - Expanded is a notable subcanon, and one that rightly should be represented. Why not give it it's own pages?


 * Separating expanded into Gurney Halleck/Ex or whatever, might even bring in some more contributors and make this wiki a more credible resource for everyone. Worth a think - the hard work of separating the articles is already half done with the XD tags.


 * :) --DuneFish "Good fences make good neighbors." 19:06, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems a quite logical, appealing and plausible proposal, at least until we come up with an even better solution :) I'd like to see Erasmus' word on that too. MoffRebusMy Talk 23:16, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

I have to be honest with you both. I am still trying to get used to having what WE call Expanded Dune be relegated to the level of non-canon by hiding it -- and allegedly it is going to make some people happy. Who? the people of Jacarutu? C'mon, who am I kidding?. Who else might be happy? The people of Dune2k.com? Maybe, but probably not.

We have all been around for years. We know who stands where. It is no secret that I believe the future of Dune to be the works of Brian Herbert. After the Heroes series, there will be the Schools series taking place early in the Corrino Empire. Let's face it, my teenage kids were born after Frank's death -- they believe that all 16 books are equal.

Obviously, keeping the works of Frank's son, Brian, visible; with the ability to click and hide his works, I still believe is a good option to make the pages flow smoothly, and look good. What we have now is somewhat acceptable to me, because it invites the casual seeker to click on the other 13 aspects of Duncan Idaho's life -- and the category headings remain seen as an invitation.

Or would it be like this? Duncan - So on Duncan/EX, we would see his journeys during the War of Assassins of 10,187, then his helping find Paul during the Jongleur Performing arc...then the reader would have to cut away to a different page article on Duncan/OR to read about his life and first death on Arrakis. Then read about his role as a ghola in Paul's 3rd assassination attempt. Then switch away to Duncan/EX to read about him trying to capture Bronso for Alia, then switch back to Duncan/OR to read about his 2nd death? Lots of switching.

Relegating the works of the The Herbert Family Trust -- the works of Brian Herbert, Frank Herbert's son -- to the level of Paul Atreides/EX would be the next slippery slope downward for me. --Erasmus2 10:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * The proposed Expanded Dune subwiki is not something that will be done hastily. We should judge the pros and cons; for now, the tags are not satisfying, but adequate for me, and I hope some programmer can help me make them better and fix the problems DuneFish mentioned. If this will not be possible, we should consider again the subwiki.
 * As for the problems of the subwiki you mentioned, the best workaround would be to include the "core" information in all the articles so that no switching will be required. This core is not that huge. That means, the perfect solution would be having three Duncan articles: Duncan, Duncan/DE and Duncan/EX. The first one will have Frank-only information, but also will be copied to the other too (perhaps in briefer form). And then each of the secondary ones will have its own expanded information and even alterations from Original Dune (Paul/EX will freely mention that Paul was born on Kaitain)
 * Furthermore, this discrimination problem we are discussing, arises only in a small part of the topics. Most topics (eg Serena Butler, Omnius etc), and the new information that will be published in "Schools" are and will be quite independent from Frank's work. Those independent topics will not require hiding, nor alternative pages, and won't raise any controversy. They will be there for anyone to read.
 * Also, we could also create "portals" (alternative main pages) for each canon. MoffRebusMy Talk 13:51, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * I am definitely interested in the 3 separate portals. --Erasmus2 22:17, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

The new Main Page is 99.9% done. The portals unfortunately are not, yet. What do you think? MoffRebusMy Talk 09:35, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking good so far - great work! (no worries on the ExDune logo) --DuneFish "Good fences make good neighbors." 21:44, October 30, 2009 (UTC)